Azul

Is Professional Wrestling Dead?

I do not ask this question facetiously or with ill intent. I ask as
a person whose loved one is terminally ill and who has sat beside the
bedside for long years praying either for a miraculous recovery and a
return to happier times or for a swift and merciful ending that allows
one to get on with one’s life; I feel as if I have been on deathwatch for
a beloved friend, watching him slowly wither and sink ever further into
the depths of morbidity.
I cannot speak with authority on the status of “Smackdown!” because
my cable carrier and The CWNetwork have yet to reach an agreement that
would allow me to see their programming. I do not count this as a
particular loss; however, it has also left me bereft of “Smallville”,
“Supernatural” and “Veronica Mars”, a capital offense if ever there was
one. (But that is another story.)
The condition of “Raw” has so deteriorated over the last twenty-four
months as to be a parody. The “Raw” of today is to the “Raw” of yore as
Austin Powers is to James Bond: a poorly conceived caricature, a self-
depreciating shadow. (So you disagree? Watch the first thirty minutes
of “Thunderball” and then the first thirty minutes of “Austin Powers:
International Man of Mystery.”) There is no originality left in the
program. All we currently see are retreads, repeats, and redoes -
“Monday Night Redux.”
John Cena is little more than a modern Steve Austin Lite, even to his own
customized belt.
Armando Alejandro Estrada, The Million Peso Hombre with Umaga the
Samoan Bulldozer: Are wrestling fans’ memories so deficient that they do
not remember Ted DiBiase? Do they not remember the “Oriental Spike”, a
move allegedly taught to Terry Gordy by Professor Toru Tanaka (aha, see
another James Bond connection!) and wielded throughout the late eighties
across the WCCW and NWA?
Another Terry Gordy rip-off is the current “Trevor Murdoch”
character from Cade and Murdoch.
I remember Cryme Tyme when they were first seen as “The Blackbirds”,
then as “Doom” (strangely enough Ron Simmons was half of THAT duo and is
still around), then as “Houston/Chicago/Harlem Heat” (pre-“King” Booker).
It is the same old shtick.
More examples?
Chris Masters and his Masterlock Challenge – Ken Patera and Ivan Putsky
did it much better. Even the second time around Hercules Hernandez was
better at it.
The Highlanders – Roddy Piper, The Sheepherders and The Grahams were
there twenty years ago.
The “Legends” – Honestly I do **not** want to see Hacksaw Duggan,
Kamala, The Brooklyn Brawler, **any** version of Doink The Clown, **any**
member of The Godwin Clan (and yes that includes Naked Midean!), Roddy
Piper, Sergeant Slaughter, or **anyone** with the surname “Hogan” or
“McMahon.” Please, enough is enough! If I want to see “Legends”, there
are enough websites and “classic” conventions across the country so that
I can satisfy any morbid curiosity I might acquire as to how much weight
Jimmy Garvin has gained, how many teeth Gary Hart has lost, how old Buddy
Roberts looks or how big Michael Hayes’ butt is.
The same is true of the current trend of “revivals” and “reunions.”
I despise the current version of ECW. To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen
jerking the slack out of Dan Quayle’s chain: “I loved ECW. I watched
ECW. I was a fan of ECW. And you, sir, are not ECW!”
The same goes for Degeneration-X Part Deux: Aside from the fact
that there is just something unwholesome and troubling about seeing eight
year old kids doing crotch-chops and yelling “Suck It!” in a crowd, while
the shenanigans of The Kliq were mildly humorous back in 1997, they just
have not translated well into the new millennium. With D-X in mind
generally, and Shawn Michaels in particular, I am shuddering in horror at
what McMahon has in store for Survivor Series 2007. I can already see
him shaking off the cobwebs from the Montreal Screwjob… and just when we
thought it was safe to go back into Canada.
And that is only in the Word Wrestling Entertainment Universe.
Over in TNA, things are no better.
Just because something is old does not mean it is an antique or a
classic. Case in point, TNA’s habit of building a franchise on WCW and
WWE cast-offs.
Kevin Nash was decrepit before WCW folded and that was the better part of
a decade ago.
Kurt Angle is on the back forty of his career.
Sting? Scott Steiner? Jeff Jarrett?
Every time I watch TNA I get the same nauseous sensation of déjà vu
that I am watching “Thunder” in 1999. Even the commentary and announcing
are Thunder-ish: Mike Tenay, Jeremy Borash, Larry Zybysko, Shane Douglas
(Does anyone else gag when remembering his “legendary” feud on Thunder
with Billy Kidman over Torrie Wilson and the supposed outing of her as a
high school fat chick? Oh, and could someone please give Kanyon’s new
contact information to James Mitchell? When they were together is the
only time either of them were watchable.).
What little good TNA has going for it, and there truly is some good there
to be found, is so buried under the garbage pile of WCW and WWE waste
that it is hard to find. It is nearly impossible to watch the terrific
X-Division matches when the real talent is snuggled under the shadow of
Kevin Nash’s potbelly and Syxx’s… I mean Sevyn’s… I mean Alex Shelly’s
drivel. It is extremely difficult to give Samoa Joe the credit he
deserves when he is thrust into the ring with has-beens and camera-hogs
like Sting, Jeff Jarrett, and now Kurt Angle.
Where is the wrestling?
The only characters I have seen in the last two years that have piqued my
interest are Ken “Mr.” Kennedy, Bobby Lashley and Samoa Joe. What do
they all have in common? They wrestle. They are light on the gimmick
and heavy on in-ring performance. (There was another character that I
absolutely adored: great athletic talent, super on the microphone, and
he had “The Look” to go with it, but McMahon’s “gimmick” killed him and
sent him off to a premature retirement. His name? Muhammad Hassan. The
gimmick blew chunks while simultaneously sucking, but the performer was
super!)
Can anyone remember the last time a major title changed hands in a
standard-rules match with a clean finish – no gimmicks, no special
circumstances, no interference, no “Dusty finishes?” I cannot.
Professional wrestling needs to do what it does best: wrestling.
Cinemax After Dark does soft-core porn better.
Soap Operas tell extended stories better.
Boxing does fighting better.
Comedy Central does comedy better.
But professional wrestling is supposed to be about what happens in
the ring: the drama of the challenge, the obsession of the chase, the
pain of the pursuit, and the joy of the victor. THAT is what
professional wrestling is about. THAT is what it should be putting on
each week for two hours. Not sex, not comedy, not retrofitted redoes of
tired old gimmicks, but entertaining WRESTLING matches. Toss in an
interview or two to help build suspense and interest, throw in a betrayal
or two here and there to create conflict, but keep the focus on the ring
– on the athletes and the performers who are exercising their gifts
within the ring.
Is professional wrestling dead? I do not know, but what is
currently disguised as, and marketed as, professional wrestling today
needs to die. Maybe once the kudzu is stripped away, the original tree
can once again flourish.

Jeff Needle

<snip>

> Is professional wrestling dead? I do not know, but what is
> currently disguised as, and marketed as, professional wrestling today
> needs to die. Maybe once the kudzu is stripped away, the original tree
> can once again flourish.

Bravo! Very good summary of the state of things in professional wrestling.

Some of the gimmicks are so incredibly stupid and offensive -- Monday's
Cryme Time carol rap was just so hopelessly dumb and ill-conceived that I
had to switch stations until it was over -- it doesn't end. The whole thing
has just come a cropper.

Sadly, I don't see anything much in the way of improvement in the future.
But I'll keep watching, and hoping...


--

------------------------------------------
Jeffrey Needle
jeff.needle@gmail.com

Benjamin Pavsner

Well, let me put it this way: wrestling as many who grew up in the 80s and
90s knew it is dead. You can do only do so many racial characatures or guys
who "HATE AMERICA." Or fart jokes. Or tits and ass. As you rightly stated,
the best characters (and the ones that the WWE is ruining, IMHO) are the
guys who wrestle FIRST and a personality SECOND.
"Azul" <azul@blue.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9890AB54E4A3Aazulbluecom@216.196.97.131...
> Is Professional Wrestling Dead?
>
> I do not ask this question facetiously or with ill intent. I ask as
> a person whose loved one is terminally ill and who has sat beside the
> bedside for long years praying either for a miraculous recovery and a
> return to happier times or for a swift and merciful ending that allows
> one to get on with one's life; I feel as if I have been on deathwatch for
> a beloved friend, watching him slowly wither and sink ever further into
> the depths of morbidity.
> I cannot speak with authority on the status of "Smackdown!" because
> my cable carrier and The CWNetwork have yet to reach an agreement that
> would allow me to see their programming. I do not count this as a
> particular loss; however, it has also left me bereft of "Smallville",
> "Supernatural" and "Veronica Mars", a capital offense if ever there was
> one. (But that is another story.)
> The condition of "Raw" has so deteriorated over the last twenty-four
> months as to be a parody. The "Raw" of today is to the "Raw" of yore as
> Austin Powers is to James Bond: a poorly conceived caricature, a self-
> depreciating shadow. (So you disagree? Watch the first thirty minutes
> of "Thunderball" and then the first thirty minutes of "Austin Powers:
> International Man of Mystery.") There is no originality left in the
> program. All we currently see are retreads, repeats, and redoes -
> "Monday Night Redux."
> John Cena is little more than a modern Steve Austin Lite, even to his own
> customized belt.
> Armando Alejandro Estrada, The Million Peso Hombre with Umaga the
> Samoan Bulldozer: Are wrestling fans' memories so deficient that they do
> not remember Ted DiBiase? Do they not remember the "Oriental Spike", a
> move allegedly taught to Terry Gordy by Professor Toru Tanaka (aha, see
> another James Bond connection!) and wielded throughout the late eighties
> across the WCCW and NWA?
> Another Terry Gordy rip-off is the current "Trevor Murdoch"
> character from Cade and Murdoch.
> I remember Cryme Tyme when they were first seen as "The Blackbirds",
> then as "Doom" (strangely enough Ron Simmons was half of THAT duo and is
> still around), then as "Houston/Chicago/Harlem Heat" (pre-"King" Booker).
> It is the same old shtick.
> More examples?
> Chris Masters and his Masterlock Challenge - Ken Patera and Ivan Putsky
> did it much better. Even the second time around Hercules Hernandez was
> better at it.
> The Highlanders - Roddy Piper, The Sheepherders and The Grahams were
> there twenty years ago.
> The "Legends" - Honestly I do **not** want to see Hacksaw Duggan,
> Kamala, The Brooklyn Brawler, **any** version of Doink The Clown, **any**
> member of The Godwin Clan (and yes that includes Naked Midean!), Roddy
> Piper, Sergeant Slaughter, or **anyone** with the surname "Hogan" or
> "McMahon." Please, enough is enough! If I want to see "Legends", there
> are enough websites and "classic" conventions across the country so that
> I can satisfy any morbid curiosity I might acquire as to how much weight
> Jimmy Garvin has gained, how many teeth Gary Hart has lost, how old Buddy
> Roberts looks or how big Michael Hayes' butt is.
> The same is true of the current trend of "revivals" and "reunions."
> I despise the current version of ECW. To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen
> jerking the slack out of Dan Quayle's chain: "I loved ECW. I watched
> ECW. I was a fan of ECW. And you, sir, are not ECW!"
> The same goes for Degeneration-X Part Deux: Aside from the fact
> that there is just something unwholesome and troubling about seeing eight
> year old kids doing crotch-chops and yelling "Suck It!" in a crowd, while
> the shenanigans of The Kliq were mildly humorous back in 1997, they just
> have not translated well into the new millennium. With D-X in mind
> generally, and Shawn Michaels in particular, I am shuddering in horror at
> what McMahon has in store for Survivor Series 2007. I can already see
> him shaking off the cobwebs from the Montreal Screwjob. and just when we
> thought it was safe to go back into Canada.
> And that is only in the Word Wrestling Entertainment Universe.
> Over in TNA, things are no better.
> Just because something is old does not mean it is an antique or a
> classic. Case in point, TNA's habit of building a franchise on WCW and
> WWE cast-offs.
> Kevin Nash was decrepit before WCW folded and that was the better part of
> a decade ago.
> Kurt Angle is on the back forty of his career.
> Sting? Scott Steiner? Jeff Jarrett?
> Every time I watch TNA I get the same nauseous sensation of déjà vu
> that I am watching "Thunder" in 1999. Even the commentary and announcing
> are Thunder-ish: Mike Tenay, Jeremy Borash, Larry Zybysko, Shane Douglas
> (Does anyone else gag when remembering his "legendary" feud on Thunder
> with Billy Kidman over Torrie Wilson and the supposed outing of her as a
> high school fat chick? Oh, and could someone please give Kanyon's new
> contact information to James Mitchell? When they were together is the
> only time either of them were watchable.).
> What little good TNA has going for it, and there truly is some good there
> to be found, is so buried under the garbage pile of WCW and WWE waste
> that it is hard to find. It is nearly impossible to watch the terrific
> X-Division matches when the real talent is snuggled under the shadow of
> Kevin Nash's potbelly and Syxx's. I mean Sevyn's. I mean Alex Shelly's
> drivel. It is extremely difficult to give Samoa Joe the credit he
> deserves when he is thrust into the ring with has-beens and camera-hogs
> like Sting, Jeff Jarrett, and now Kurt Angle.
> Where is the wrestling?
> The only characters I have seen in the last two years that have piqued my
> interest are Ken "Mr." Kennedy, Bobby Lashley and Samoa Joe. What do
> they all have in common? They wrestle. They are light on the gimmick
> and heavy on in-ring performance. (There was another character that I
> absolutely adored: great athletic talent, super on the microphone, and
> he had "The Look" to go with it, but McMahon's "gimmick" killed him and
> sent him off to a premature retirement. His name? Muhammad Hassan. The
> gimmick blew chunks while simultaneously sucking, but the performer was
> super!)
> Can anyone remember the last time a major title changed hands in a
> standard-rules match with a clean finish - no gimmicks, no special
> circumstances, no interference, no "Dusty finishes?" I cannot.
> Professional wrestling needs to do what it does best: wrestling.
> Cinemax After Dark does soft-core porn better.
> Soap Operas tell extended stories better.
> Boxing does fighting better.
> Comedy Central does comedy better.
> But professional wrestling is supposed to be about what happens in
> the ring: the drama of the challenge, the obsession of the chase, the
> pain of the pursuit, and the joy of the victor. THAT is what
> professional wrestling is about. THAT is what it should be putting on
> each week for two hours. Not sex, not comedy, not retrofitted redoes of
> tired old gimmicks, but entertaining WRESTLING matches. Toss in an
> interview or two to help build suspense and interest, throw in a betrayal
> or two here and there to create conflict, but keep the focus on the ring
> - on the athletes and the performers who are exercising their gifts
> within the ring.
> Is professional wrestling dead? I do not know, but what is
> currently disguised as, and marketed as, professional wrestling today
> needs to die. Maybe once the kudzu is stripped away, the original tree
> can once again flourish.

Bill Cain

I would have to disagree with you on what makes the best Characters.

To most, wrestle would take 2nd place to a personality. Without good Mic
skills, a wrestler only has so much potential. Although to myself, it's
about equal. I give you the following examples.

Most Popular
HHH - Good on both accounts. I really like him when he is not a heal though
as some of the things he does and says are really funny. Without mic skills,
he would just be a Tyson Tomko.
Shawn Micheals - Always had the Mic skills and is able to wrestle with the
best.
The Rock - Was a nobody until he got Mic time.
Jerico - My first impression of him was on the Mic with The Rock in the ring
when he first came to WWE. It was awesome and I never even saw him wrestle.
Carlito - Not impressed with him early on, but once he grabbed a mic, I
loved him. His wrestling has gotten better as well.
CM Punk - Actually wish he would move to RAW... Good on both accounts
Austin - He might have had both early in his career, but when he was most
popular, it was his mic skills sending him to the top.

Semi pop
Chris Masters - Not good Wrestle or on the mic but a little of both.
Nitro - Needs Melina to add Mic skills and sex appeal, excellent wrestler
Umaga - Needs a mouth piece
Mark henry - No actual wrestling skills, size and a little mic ability keeps
him in the middle.
Matt Striker - The only thing keeping him in this group is mic skills

Not popular
Haas - Excellent Wrestler, No mic skills
Shelton - Comes and goes, But what a wrestler.
Lance Cade - Good solid wrestler, not given much of a chance on the mic, so
no real exposure.
Tatanka - Err - not bad wrestler, but chief jaw is long gone, get a mic or
retire.
Sylvester Terkay - Mic skills keeping him down.

A few popular that buck the system
Both Hardy boys
Sabu
Lashley

Bill Cain



"Benjamin Pavsner" <pavsnerp@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:SIndh.602$SV1.376@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> Well, let me put it this way: wrestling as many who grew up in the 80s and
> 90s knew it is dead. You can do only do so many racial characatures or
> guys who "HATE AMERICA." Or fart jokes. Or tits and ass. As you rightly
> stated, the best characters (and the ones that the WWE is ruining, IMHO)
> are the guys who wrestle FIRST and a personality SECOND.
> "Azul" <azul@blue.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9890AB54E4A3Aazulbluecom@216.196.97.131...

Jalek

Azul wrote:
> and heavy on in-ring performance. (There was another character that I
> absolutely adored: great athletic talent, super on the microphone, and
> he had “The Look” to go with it, but McMahon’s “gimmick” killed him and
> sent him off to a premature retirement. His name? Muhammad Hassan. The
> gimmick blew chunks while simultaneously sucking, but the performer was
> super!)

I agree. What little heat he was drawing was really due to his selling
of the gimmick rather than any strength it had on it's own. They
could've probably gotten a retread of an Iron Sheik character over easier.

> Soap Operas tell extended stories better.

....and that's what I seem to be considering week after week. I just
don't care enough about any of the characters' personal lives for the
storylines to work.

Azul

HHH - Trips as a heel is about as close as one can get to being the best.
His promos get a little long sometimes, but he more than makes up for
them with his excellent ring work. Trips as a face is just plain boring.
So in that regard, I agree slightly that personality makes a difference.

Shawn Michaels - Heel Michaels is terrific. Face Michaels is too much
like a milquesop. Michales was at his best in the pre-Screwjob. Since
then he is just a shadow of his former self.

The Rock - All sizzle; no steak. No real wrestling talent at all.

Jericho - Right up there with Heel Trips. He **is** what Flair always
claimed to be: Able to have a main event match with a broom and make the
broom look good!

Carlito - His gimmick ruins him. Not much else to say.

CM Punk - Haven't seen enough of him to form a judgment yet. Thanks to
The CWNetwork...

"Bill Cain" <wcain@partmaker.com> wrote in
news:aQqdh.5434$QC.3693@trnddc02:

> Most Popular
> HHH - Good on both accounts. I really like him when he is not a heal
> though
> as some of the things he does and says are really funny. Without mic
> skills, he would just be a Tyson Tomko.
> Shawn Micheals - Always had the Mic skills and is able to wrestle with
> the best.
> The Rock - Was a nobody until he got Mic time.
> Jerico - My first impression of him was on the Mic with The Rock in
> the ring when he first came to WWE. It was awesome and I never even
> saw him wrestle. Carlito - Not impressed with him early on, but once
> he grabbed a mic, I loved him. His wrestling has gotten better as
> well. CM Punk - Actually wish he would move to RAW... Good on both
> accounts Austin - He might have had both early in his career, but when
> he was most popular, it was his mic skills sending him to the top.
>
> Semi pop
> Chris Masters - Not good Wrestle or on the mic but a little of both.
> Nitro - Needs Melina to add Mic skills and sex appeal, excellent
> wrestler Umaga - Needs a mouth piece
> Mark henry - No actual wrestling skills, size and a little mic ability
> keeps him in the middle.
> Matt Striker - The only thing keeping him in this group is mic skills
>
> Not popular
> Haas - Excellent Wrestler, No mic skills
> Shelton - Comes and goes, But what a wrestler.
> Lance Cade - Good solid wrestler, not given much of a chance on the
> mic, so no real exposure.
> Tatanka - Err - not bad wrestler, but chief jaw is long gone, get a
> mic or retire.
> Sylvester Terkay - Mic skills keeping him down.
>
> A few popular that buck the system
> Both Hardy boys
> Sabu
> Lashley
>

Shy Guy

"Bill Cain" <wcain@partmaker.com> wrote in message
news:aQqdh.5434$QC.3693@trnddc02...
>
> I would have to disagree with you on what makes the best Characters.
>
> To most, wrestle would take 2nd place to a personality. Without good Mic
> skills, a wrestler only has so much potential.

I have to agree with you. Obviously, the ideal is great mic skills combined
with excellent mat work, but those candidates are few and far between. You
listed some in your post.

I think the shining example that proves your thesis is Hogan. He is
universally recognized as having ZERO wrestling ability. Even he has made
self-deprecating comments at times about not being the best wrestler out
there (I think during his Hall of Fame acceptance he said something to that
effect). Yet, in his prime (80's), there was never a bigger wrestling
superstar in the history of sports entertainment. If, in professional
wrestling, you must choose one or the other, a good gimmick, with some
personality to sell it, trumps athletic ability every time.

Shy Guy

wyzbang

"Jalek" <kasar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:VLWdnYI_c8bX6uvYnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@adelphia.com ...
> Azul wrote:
>> and heavy on in-ring performance. (There was another character that I
>> absolutely adored: great athletic talent, super on the microphone, and
>> he had “The Look” to go with it, but McMahon’s “gimmick” killed him and
>> sent him off to a premature retirement. His name? Muhammad Hassan. The
>> gimmick blew chunks while simultaneously sucking, but the performer was
>> super!)
>
> I agree. What little heat he was drawing was really due to his selling of
> the gimmick rather than any strength it had on it's own. They could've
> probably gotten a retread of an Iron Sheik character over easier.
>
>> Soap Operas tell extended stories better.
>
> ...and that's what I seem to be considering week after week. I just don't
> care enough about any of the characters' personal lives for the storylines
> to work.

The only guy working now, that reminds me of the good old days is Mr.
Kennedy.
And ... Bringing back all the old guys, just ain't makin' it for me.

I loved Roddy and Flare in the old days, but please send them home.

the rick

wyzbang

"Jalek" <kasar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:VLWdnYI_c8bX6uvYnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@adelphia.com ...
> Azul wrote:
>> and heavy on in-ring performance. (There was another character that I
>> absolutely adored: great athletic talent, super on the microphone, and
>> he had “The Look” to go with it, but McMahon’s “gimmick” killed him and
>> sent him off to a premature retirement. His name? Muhammad Hassan. The
>> gimmick blew chunks while simultaneously sucking, but the performer was
>> super!)
>
> I agree. What little heat he was drawing was really due to his selling of
> the gimmick rather than any strength it had on it's own. They could've
> probably gotten a retread of an Iron Sheik character over easier.
>
>> Soap Operas tell extended stories better.
>
> ...and that's what I seem to be considering week after week. I just don't
> care enough about any of the characters' personal lives for the storylines
> to work.

The only guy working now, that reminds me of the good old days is Mr.
Kennedy.
And ... Bringing back all the old guys, just ain't makin' it for me.

I loved Roddy and Flare in the old days, but please send them home.

the rick

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